Engaging Every Generation

What is scripture?

This past weekend was spent with 50 students and leaders from about 15 diocese in our province. It was a good weekend but also a tiring weekend mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I took two of students from our amazing youth commission (Drew and Liz). Some of you may wonder why we bothered to attend this thing. One rector even questioned it last week. The truth is that we have something to share with these folks and the setting is perfect for it. At this gathering which takes place every year, there is no teaching per se. Rather, it is 2 students and 1 adult from each diocese showing up for the purpose of sharing what we are doing in youth ministry and seeing what we can learn from one another. Knowing that there is no dangerous teaching and that we get to talk about what Jesus is doing in SC, we went enthusiastically to participate. We also knew that we would be surrounded with people who not only don’t do what we do, they really don’t get it. We had the opportunity however to lead a Bible study in which we examined James 1 on listening and doing God’s word as well as 1 Tim 3:16 on the nature of scripture. Not only did a lot of students thank us, it stimulated a lot of meal time conversation about the Bible. Here is where it got interesting…

On Sunday morning at breakfast, we heard the most stunning comment about scripture out of the mouth of the diocesan coordinator from upstate. Also sitting there and in agreement with her were the coordinators from Florida (not Central Florida) and Georgia. The comment was this: I value and teach scripture, but if you were to write out your life story, particularly your faith journey, I would consider that to be as much of scripture as the books of the Bible. Wow! We were stunned. Now to me that revealed a lot about her (and their) understanding of scripture. To these three, the Bible is not much more than a story. Perhaps the story of God’s interaction with mankind. So there is little difference between my testimony and Paul’s teaching? What is truth then? What is revelation (not in the sense of the last book of the Bible)? Is it all about experience? The conversation was capped off with comments that further revealed thier view of scripture. One said that he had real issues with parts of the Bible, such as Leviticus.

Now I wish I could conclude the story by saying that we entered a healthy debate and all were soundly converted to a much better view of God’s word. Truth is that we were on our way out the door and were not about to end a weekend of testimony and encouraging people toward scripture by getting into a heated debate (which we knew it would be). Instead we had a great conversation on the ride home about what we discovered and focused on the good conversations we had with people who are genuinely interested but uneducated. The scary thing was that these folks represented the moderate position in the Episcopal Church. They were not the extreme other end of the church. And yet, the reality is that we are so far apart from even the moderates!

Thoughts anyone?

Please follow and like us:
error
fb-share-icon
Tweet
fb-share-icon

Posted

in

by

DaveWrightEEG

Tags:

Comments

10 responses to “What is scripture?”

  1. Andy Morgan Avatar
    Andy Morgan

    I would question whether this person really can “value and teach scripture” if this is her view. She is also implying that someone’s faith journey cannot be wrong or challenged in anyway – which is also a problem. Jesus challenged his disciples ‘faith journey’ many times.

    Reply
  2. Dave Wright Avatar
    Dave Wright

    Good comment. The reality is that the conversation went on to challenge various parts of scripture (Leviticus in particular), which led me to beleive that these folks don’t hestitate to challenge anything because it all could be wrong.

    Reply
  3. Mark Dickinson Avatar
    Mark Dickinson

    I have had interaction with these folks and have experienced how they, and this person in particular, teach scripture. It is scary. Youth work for most of the church, is simply a ‘safe’ place to send kids on Sunday evenings. They don’t want to teach the truth of the Bible because truth is what each individual decides is truth – ‘truthiness’. They might offend someone else’s reading – Buddha forbid! Those of us who gathered in Charlotte, and those whom we represented, are a remnant of a Biblical community. May God continue to bless our work so that we might bless others across our state and province.

    Reply
  4. E'Lane Rutherford Avatar
    E’Lane Rutherford

    As someone who would probably be labeled one of “these folks” I’d like to say that I was not there, did not hear the whole conversation but can understand having problems with Leviticus and other parts of the Bible…there IS some difficult stuff there! No doubt! However, it was only in the last 4 years that I realized just how important the OT story is to our NT story. Please don’t take offense at the use of the word story (I mean what makes us what we are – our history, and yes, our experience) – we are our stories. The OT is important, essential, to our understanding of our Christian story – without knowing where we came from, understanding the world into which Jesus came, we can’t fully experience the richness contained in the NT. I have been a Christian for several decades and only came to realize this in my more recent past… I would ask that we be aware that in our “heightened state of alert” and extreme sensitivity in The Episcopal Church, Diocese, Province that we refrain from using labels, name-calling and making judgments…We need to be mindful that, like in Fusion, we are all at different places in our journeys – and the journey IS different for everyone – that which has been “traveled” up to this very moment are not up for challenge and cannot be undone, but can be reflected upon, learned from – it was what it was – it is where I go from this point forward that I need the challenge – to continue to be the faithful follower of Christ that I have struggled to be until this very moment. The Bible is not static. The process of revelation is ongoing. The more I learn, study, reflect, struggle and try to live the Gospel in every aspect of my life, I discover more and renewed importance of the Bible for me. And just a personal note, I don’t think that your testimony, Dave, is any less valuable than that of Paul’s – yours is yours, Paul’s is Paul’s. Aren’t we all disciples? Or at least trying to be?

    Reply
  5. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    In no way do I want to be judgemental, but I posted this thought about a conversation because it reveals just how different our views of scripture can be. I agree with E’lane on many things. I find Leviticus difficult but am not inclined to throw it away as was the view of one of the people in the original conversation. What is difficult about it is how to intepret and how it applies to life today. In th broadest sense, Leviticus shows us that God calls His people to be different than the culture around them. The laws in the OT set people apart – made them not the norm but oddballs, they had a higher standard to live to. The law also shows us just how utterly sinful we are. The OT also gives us a context for the NT.

    Where I found major departure from my view of scripture in the context of this conversation a few weeks back, is that I don’t elevate experience to the same level of scripture. My testimony is valid and has been (hopefully will always be) used at times by God to lead people to Him. However, to state that my story or journey is as much scripture as the 66 books of the Bible is either to reduce scripture to merely human experience of God or to elevate my experience to that of God’s word. There is a fundamental difference. I remain convinced that God’s word is sufficient for all of mankind for all of eternity. Nothing needs to be added.

    Reply
  6. E'Lane Rutherford Avatar
    E’Lane Rutherford

    One thing that didn’t come through in my first-ever post on any blog anywhere is I think that A LOT of Christians – in all denominations focus so heavily on the NT ONLY, exclusively, that our early story is MIA and we cannot put the NT into proper understanding. That is what I thought about when I read the original post. I used to be one of those annoying “My God is a God of LOVE – The God in the NT, not the meanie in the OT”. God in OT scripture is SO FULL OF LOVE, PATIENCE – and maybe especially GRACE! If we don’t KNOW our OT, then we are shortchanging ourselves and, as Youth Ministers our KIDS…which is incredibly sad.

    Reply
  7. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    E’Lane, We said! We need to draw students into the Old Testament. It shows us such a greater (bigger) picture of God’s love and how He calls his people to holiness.

    Reply
  8. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    oops, I meant… well said…

    Reply
  9. Oeland Avatar
    Oeland

    Sorry I am so late on this blog – I’ve been sick before the holidays and I’m still catching up!

    Dave, Thanks for going to that meeting. I’ve been there a few times before and it sounds like you did an excellent job of presenting the transforming gospel without debating people. Well done! I felt my heart sink again when I heard the apparent glorification of our selves, or mundaning of scripture.

    E’lane makes good point about the dangers of labeling. I fall into this myself. It is important, but difficult, to remember how DIFFERENT and wide our church views are across the board.

    It gets really tricky when you take these conversations outside of our TEC circle. Some of the YS Emergent material sounds similar to the revisionist thinking of TEC. Even Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis has some strangly unanswered ideas about faith. All this shows me again the great need for respect for scripture and the ability to communicate doctrine.

    When I am in a group of evangelicals and talk about “our lives are continuing scriputre” – so much is assumed. We are witnesses to God’s transformation in our lives, we reverence the words of the Bible, we want to be part of His kingdom in our history. When I hear these words at a TEC event – I find arguements against the nature of sin (aren’t we all born holy?), the need for redemption (you don’t still believe God would send people to hell do you?), and questioning of God’s kingship in our lives (haven’t you considered the male domination of this idea?).

    Thanks Dave for keeping the orthodox doctrine central to our thoughts about youth ministry!

    Reply
    1. Joni Avatar
      Joni

      I’m imprsseed. You’ve really raised the bar with that.

      Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

error

Enjoy this blog? Please spread the word :)